The Urgency of Prioritizing Your Health | David and Melissa Ambrose (MetaFitRx)

Starting a better health journey now is more important than waiting for the perfect time.

Our recent series of episodes have focused on themes of health, wellness, work-life balance, confronting stress, and building an intentional career as a lawyer where your work doesn't consume your life.

But how do you know where to start? Where do you begin measuring and understanding what steps to take? What gets you even in that door in the first place?

Our guests today operate MetaFitRx, a specialty lab that tests, tracks & transforms your health. Melissa and David Ambrose combine state of the art metabolic testing with wellness coaching and guidance in the pursuit of one fundamental objective: compiling your baseline body data, to create a health management plan that makes sense for you. They help guide their clients towards making the best choices for their minds and bodies, drawn from their own, personal data and testing.

High-stress careers lead to significant health challenges. Add to this family responsibilities, caregiving, financial commitments and more, and it's a lot. 

But who is looking after you?

The culture in law firms often neglects personal health. And it's hard to break free from the work and social culture around you, and be the only one not participating.  Most Americans are coming very short of even the baseline CDC standards for  cardiovascular exercise and resistance training, such as 150 minutes a week for moderate intensity, or  75 minutes a week for vigorous intensity. Not to mention managing sleep, stress and dietary needs.

So it's the behavior component that we're focusing on today. The good news: it's entirely within your control to prioritize your health. In this episode, learn how to take the initial steps, or continue along with confidence, if you've already started down the road. And if you have somebody in your life that's trying to change, be  there for them.

"My real goal was to show everybody how there is value in this data no matter where you are in your journey.  And we wanted to make it so that everybody, not just athletes, could do it, and everybody could use it." - Melissa Ambrose

In this episode, we discuss:

◼️ When to say yes to more work, and when to say no.
◼️ Understanding body composition is key to health management.
◼️ Knowing how to track nutrition is a key component to your health.
◼️ Substance abuse is a significant issue in the legal profession.
◼️ Building a supportive community is essential for long-term health.

Chapters

00:00 Understanding Stress and Health in High-Demand Careers
06:05 The Importance of Data in Health and Fitness
09:10 Client Success Stories and Transformations
11:49 Core Assessments: DEXA Scan, RMR, and VO2 Max
18:11 Understanding Body Composition and Metabolism
23:55 The Role of Nutrition in Health and Performance
32:42 Understanding Health Metrics for Lawyers
35:40 The Impact of Stress on Legal Professionals
40:25 Starting Your Health Journey
46:56 Changing the Culture Around Health and Wellness

Courtroom Stories & Tactics | RVA Trial Lawyers
Available on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and at RVATrialLawyers.com 

Based out of Richmond, Virginia, Courtroom Stories & Tactics by RVA Trial Lawyers exists for lawyers who try cases to juries on behalf of people. Through our podcast, we hope to learn from them, support them, connect them, inspire them, and preserve their work for future trial lawyers.

If you are willing, we would greatly appreciate it if you left us a 5-Star Google Review by clicking here. Your review will help people find us.

Thank you!

Sharif Gray and Nael Abouzaki

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:33

When you look at people in high stress, high demand, and now they're middle aged and up, so they're in their highest earning part of their career with the most responsibility. They also almost always had kids, aging parents, people depending on them at home, at work. So when you look at it from that perspective, their stress was monumental. Lack of sleep is monumental. So there are no billable hours for your health.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

This is Courtroom Stories and Tactics by RVA trial lawyers, hosted by Sharif Gray and Nial Abuzaki.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

All right, before we get into the podcast episode, I want to take a minute or two and introduce you to a friend and colleague, Jenny Shadini. Jenny is a former prosecutor from Baltimore City, and now she works as a settlement consultant. We work with her often on helping our clients really maximize their results. Jenny, it's really great working with you and having you as a supporter of the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Thank you, Sharif. Hi everyone. My name is Jenny Shadini, and I work as a settlement consultant, which means I work with attorneys and their clients in various settlement planning needs, such as structured settlements, whether or not to utilize a trust, how to protect government benefits, and overall providing financial security to your clients.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And Jenny, how can people get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_03 1:55

The best way to reach me would be my cell, which is 301-332-1031. Again, that's 301-332-1031.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

All right, we're back. And today we've made a special little field trip. We've come down the road, what, like a mile and a half to come visit Metafit RX here in Richmond, Virginia. So thank you for having us. Let me give our listeners from inside and one, how do I even know you all? And what is this thing called Metafit Rx? So as Dave put a few minutes ago, I've been my own um experimenter on my own body. And so like I've done all types of stuff over the years. I'm still trying to get taller. I haven't figured out the secret for that. But part of this like health journey, at least for me, has been, well, let's figure out what the data is and let's get a baseline and then figure out what to do to improve my health, to improve longevity, both so I can be a better parent, a better spouse, and also be better in and out of the courtroom. And so I found these guys almost a year ago, I think at this point. And I have worked with you guys, we've spoken probably every other week or so for the last year or so. I've been seeing incredible results, and I think I'm healthier. The only thing that I'm missing is just that height gain. So I'm very excited to have you both on the podcast. I think there's gonna be a lot of value added to our listeners because as I've explained in other episodes, being a trial lawyer is not just what you do in the office or in the courtroom. I mean, to be your best self for your client, you have to take care of yourself. And health is a huge, huge part of that, as you both know. And so I'm really excited for people to learn from you guys like what someone should do if they're new to this journey and they're like, you know what, like I want to take my health seriously so I can be there for my family and be there for my work. What are those steps? But before we get into all that, let's take a minute or so, introduce yourselves. Dave, if you wouldn't mind, go ahead and start.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah. Uh first of all, you can get a little bit taller. I saw it happen once with uh old client in DC who was 6'5. He ended up being 6'6 when in his 50s, he went for his annual physical, and his doctor's like, you grew an inch. But what it was, he had really bad posture. He ironically, he was an attorney at a major firm in DC managing partner, and he posturally over the years had become kyphosis, so he had rounding of the upper torso and neck area, and you saw in cervical, you saw he actually straightened it up a bit through. Okay, so there's hope. So there's hope. Yeah, there's hope. But you already have good posture, so that might be a different story. But um, yeah, so I'm David Ambrose. So I am one of the co-founders here at Metafit RX under the uh esteemed assistant to the founding manager. Assistant to the assistant to the founding manager of Metafit RX, and we do some fun stuff here regarding longevity, weight loss, performance, different outcomes. And I really bring in the behavioral component to what we do clinically as far as black and white data. We now take black and white data and have gray people, personality, because that's what people are, and how do we apply these to your lifestyle, wife, kids, work, stressors, sleep, you know, what these different components that black and white data is really helpful, but how do we actually apply it in a practical manner and sustainable manner to what you're trying to achieve? And you two know each other, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:12

So I am Melissa Ambrose, I'm the clinical exercise physiologist here. So I started this about five years ago. I did my graduate degree specifically in clinical ex-fiz. And so it was all of this, but for athletes, you know, very, very high-level athletes. And I wanted to do this for everybody. So a couple years ago, probably about four or five years ago, it was just me and my little machine, and I was just kind of toting it around. Um, I was doing some personal training, and you know, this guy's like, you bought a metabolic machine right after the pandemic, and nobody wanted to breathe into a two. Right before the pandemic. Right before the pandemic, and then started doing it right after the pandemic. So it took a while to get going, but then I got all of the pieces together. And then about two years, maybe two and a half years into the business, I convinced him to quit whatever else it was he was doing and jump on board with this. Because as he said, there's applying the data to real life. And what I learned very quickly was I can hand you the answer on paper, which is essentially what I was doing. But if you don't do it, it doesn't matter. And so I ran into a barrier with a lot of clients where they'd come back and we would just stare at each other because I'm like, you didn't do anything. And they said no. And I'm like, okay, but I literally gave it to you. So the behavior component that he added obviously was a massive piece that kind of got us to where we are today. But I originally came up with, you know, all the protocols and how we put it together, the presentation of the data, you know, the best ways to use it. And my real goal was to not that we don't do athletes, but my real goal was to bring this to everybody and to show everybody how there is value in this data, no matter where you are in your journey. And we wanted to make it so that everybody could do it and everybody could use it. So I think with the two of us now, we've been really what we are as far as like we've nailed it. I would say the past two or three years have been awesome. So we really took off just this year, back in January, we opened up in Charlottesville. So we have our second location now. So I think we've really gotten the formula down, we've really gotten the system down. And it, yeah, it did take a combination of us. So husband and wife team, and it's been great. I would say 2024 is really when it took off. So it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

It's exciting. Yeah. And I can certainly appreciate like data is only one part of it, right? Like I remember like I had the whoop, and now I mean I have a smartwatch again, but for the longest time, like I was resistant to all the track wearables. Cause like I can get all the data in the world, but like if you just tell me that I'm not sleeping well, like and I'm great, I'm then I'm just gonna continue to not sleep, it doesn't help me. Now you're more mad trying to sleep. Exactly, right? And so, but having the data, being able to establish the baseline, and then of course being able to learn, all right, so what do I do? And a big thing that certainly I've experienced and I imagine most people have experienced is there's so much out there, it's almost overwhelming when it comes to health and fitness. Yeah, right. Like anything you want to find, you can find on the internet, right? What you should fast for eight hours, no, 12 hours, no fasting stupid, right? You can find whatever you want. And so to be able to package what works in an evidence-based way to the average person and make it accessible, I think is huge. Yeah, you guys are doing great. I know, I mean, I've used you all now, the honorable who is not with us today, he's in court. He's used you all, and then I know many others who I've I've sent your way. So, anyways, well, before we get into kind of the nuts and bolts about what you all do, and also at some point I want you guys to talk about what that big machine is behind you. That's my baby. Let's let's start off, and if you wouldn't mind sharing a story about maybe a client that you've helped, or something that can help make this real to our listeners.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

There's a couple things that there was uh this is actually from a Google review. I don't have it off the top of my head, but he had mentioned in the review how he found the testing with us to be more helpful and informative than the 20 years he'd been getting annual physicals because of how lacking the regular old school annual physical is. There's no practical application to what you do, it's just blood work and turn your head and cough, right? Like that's it. Like there's the whole behavioral history, there's no actual practical testing in the VO2 max, there's no looking at your body in a deeper way, there's no testing your metabolism and your breath. It's just blood and how are you feeling, Sharif. That's it. So the annual physical, that was a really telling one when he gave that very nice testimonial about just how informative and how helpful it was for him. And that's one of many. We had a person come in a couple days ago, and this person she's had phenomenal success, and she's down a hundred pounds. It's like a whole new person. Yeah, a whole new person. 2022 we first saw.

SPEAKER_04 10:46

Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah, she's got a couple, so it's been at least a couple days.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

I think she has four scans, she's down over a hundred pounds in in uh about over three years now. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

I have so many clients that all kind of have the same reaction, which is that aha moment of oh, like that makes sense, or you can put together what I'm telling you versus what you've been doing and see either where you've been making the mistakes or where you've been doing something right, kind of going back to what you said earlier about all the information that's out there. And I think one of the biggest issues is that some of it's correct, some of it's wrong, and it's so hard to figure out what's what. And what I often say to people, I feel like nine times out of 10 when they come in here, I always say to them, it's not that what you're doing is wrong, but it's not right for you. It's not right for your body. So maybe they collected some information, you know, however they got it, whether it was social media, and it's not wrong, but it doesn't fit your goal. It's not gonna help you get to where you want to be. So many, many times with clients, I love when they have that kind of aha moment because obviously they know more about their life than I do. But when I spell it out on paper and you can see them make the connection to what they're doing or what they're not doing, and it's like that makes sense now. Like that's my favorite part. It's just really helping people get through that noise and figure out what is specifically needed for your body. Because a lot of times they feel like they're going crazy, right? They're like, I'm spinning my wheels, nothing's working. And being able to pinpoint, I don't want to say what's wrong, but being able to pinpoint what they need to do, I think is is super powerful.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Absolutely. Let's talk about, I think this might be helpful. But when I first started with you guys, I think I started with the comprehensive, which was the DEXA scan, the VO2 Max, and the RMR, right? Can we talk about what each of those three things are and the importance of them? I think that could be helpful.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Absolutely. So those are what we consider our core assessments. Those are our three main services that we offer here. The DEXA scan is for your body composition. So, as you know, it's a flatbed x-ray. That's the machine that's behind me. You lay down, it takes a scan, we're looking at your bone, we're looking at your lean mass, we're looking at your body fat. And this is the most comprehensive snapshot of your body right now, and then also showing trend over time, right? What's happening? Are you gaining or losing muscle? Are you gaining or losing fat? So the DEXA scan is what we use for body composition.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

And how does the DEXA scan compare to like, and this is a terrible example, and you'll probably laugh at me, but like the scale that you step on and you say, Oh, well, your body fat is this, right? Like no, not I recognize it's knowing what I know now, like they're not in the same universe. Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

So the DEXA is the gold standard for body composition right now. All the other devices out there are trying to be like the DEXA, or they're, you know, they're mimicking, they're trying to mimic what the DEXA does. Your home scale is most likely what's called a bioelectrical impedance. That's most body composition scales out there are BIAs. It sends a small electrical current through your body, and it really what it does is it estimates your total body water. And then based on age, height, weight, gender, BMI, and a whole bunch of other information that you enter in, it spits back some values. The biggest issue I have with those is nine times out of 10, somebody comes in here and it's off, like way off. We we've seen up to 100%. Yeah, we've seen up to I had a guy this morning whose scale told him he was 15%, and I told him he was 27% body fat.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

So everyone thinks, at least for me, like every guy is like, yeah, I'm like 15%. You know what I mean? And then then you come in, you do the decks, and you're like, oh, no. Well, you're correct. You know what 15% looks like now in what it's like. Why? Why it took me a while and it took a lot of hard work.

SPEAKER_04 14:17

Well, and you know, and so what I say to people in that is if you have one of these scales, because we have one of these scales, use it for directional accuracy. If there's change happening within your body, it's most likely gonna monitor change. Whether or not it's correct, that's that's a whole nother story. But I will say, most people that come in here, this guy already knew. He's like, I know this is wrong. Like he he already chat GPT'd it, he already knew it was wrong. So Dr.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Yeah, so you know, I just tell people look, just use it for what it is, just use it for directional accuracy. It's the easiest thing to hop on every day. You can't hop on this machine every day. That's an X-ray. It's a it's very low dose X-ray, but it's still radiation exposure. So yeah, there really is no comparison.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

There's a lot of shock value, too, sometimes. There is that sticker shock value. There's a biological devices dominate the market for body composition. And if you've been using one at your local gym or at home, and now you come in here and you find out it's a hundred percent relative error, it was off by, you know, say he was 15% at his gym, and now he's 30% here, that's a hundred percent error. It's people like, oh, it's 15%, it's but uh that's absolute error is 15%, but relative error is actually 100. Or maybe he's very lean and he and he's 8% on that scale and he's 16% on DEXA. And it's only 8% off, but still it's 100% relatively off. So the leaner somebody is, the more egregiously off they will typically be. And it can be rather shocking to some people. So it can be managing the expectations, particularly males have a harder time when they react to, oh, I'm 15% on on this. Oh, that's not what I thought. Yeah, but I mean and they see it like and they're 34%, they're like, What?

SPEAKER_04 15:51

I will say a lot of people coming in here now, they already know it's wrong. Or they already know it's here for a reason. Exactly. Yeah, right? Um, but so that's the DEXA. That's the big piece that we have. That's the body composition.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

But it's more than just body fat, right? I mean, I mean correct. My understanding is also like bone density and things of that nature as well.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

So we divide it up into three tissue categories, basically. So your bone, your lean mass, and your body fat. So we take a look at all of it. Your body fat's only a third of the equation. We're looking at lean mass. We look at sarcopenia, which is that loss of lean mass as we age, or just being considered under muscled, right? How much lean mass do you have? Yeah, we look at the bone density, we look at total body bone density. All of these are risk factors. So body fat is just one piece. And when we do talk about body fat percentage, I always remind people body fat percentage is just that. It's a percentage, and everything's gonna play into that. So when your body fat percent moves over time, we like to look at what's causing that. Is it an increase or decrease in fat? Is it an increase or decrease in muscle? Is it some sort of combination of the two? Another big thing we see is called sarcopenic obesity, which is the fancy term for skinny fat. So somebody might come in normal on the BMI scale and they've been told by a physician all their life that you're healthy, you're good to go, your BMI is normal. They hop on this thing and they're 40% body fat. Not because they're over fat, but because they're under muscled. And a lot of times that is accompanied by lower bone density. So that's another one. That's a shock value. That's a big shock value.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Those are typically middle-age females, and their BIA device has them in the teens or low 20s percent body fat. Yeah, just because over 40% body fat. And they're like WTF is going on here.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

That can be a hard conversation.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

They're 5'5, 125 pounds. So it's not that they're overfat, they're under muscled, is what it often comes down to. They've never done resistance training, they've always been naturally thin or skinny, but they aren't healthy. They're not strong.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

As you said, body fat's just a piece of it. And, you know, we also have people that come in, maybe their body fat's a little higher, but their VO2 max is through the roof, they lift weights, their blood panels are healthy, they're perfectly active. You're fine, right? It's body fat's just another risk factor. I think we do put a lot of emphasis on it because of physical appearance, right? So it's it's really aesthetics that most people are going for when we're talking about their body fat. We pay more attention to the visceral fat. So we can identify visceral fat versus subcutaneous fat. Visceral fat is what's underneath your abdominal wall. That's considered that more dangerous fat because that's what has more of a high risk factor when it comes to metabolic disease. So since it's underneath the abs, that's the one that wraps around all the organs and can cause issues. That's really the bigger emphasis that I talk to people about. Overall body fat, I'll mention it. We we kind of, I don't want to say I gloss over it, but you know, it's a risk factor. It's there, but I don't spend a lot of time on it. Visceral fat, I don't care who you are, you're gonna know where you fall on that risk category because that one's the dangerous one. So that I care about that one more than we do total body fat. I care about what we call your relative skeletal muscle index, which is watching your lean mass. I care about that more than your body fat. So while it is in there, it's not the whole picture, right? Your body fat doesn't tell the whole story. We definitely dive in to about eight or nine pages, and only one of those pages is devoted to your body fat.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Then the question is, well, then you have the data. What do you do with it? Right. And that's incredibly important.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

That's where the other two tests come into play, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

So Yeah, let's let's what do you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_04 19:15

VO2 Max or Yeah, well, I'll talk about RMR and VO2. Um, because that's typically the order that we do it in is DEXA, RMR, VO2. If you come in and get them all done. So the DEXA tells you where you're at. It gives us a good idea of a realistic goal, and then it monitors your trends, right? It tells us where you're going. The resting metabolic rate and the VO2 max, that's what helps us create your plan. And so the resting metabolic rate is looking at two things. So what we call the speed of your metabolism and the function of your metabolism. The speed is going to be the amount of calories you would burn at rest in a 24-hour period if you laid in bed and did nothing, right? So if you don't move, what do you burn? That's considered your baseline metabolic rate. Then what we look at, what we call the function, is of those calories at rest, what are you burning? Are you burning mostly carbohydrates or are you burning mostly fat? And we would have a conversation about what that means and why it matters. But really, what we're looking for here, again, is a slow metabolism. Because some people, if you have a slow metabolism, that's gonna be a barrier. And that's something we need to pick out. So that's a big one that I think a lot of people may or may not think they need. And usually we only have to test that once. If your metabolism's good, you're fine. If it's slow and we got to build it back up, we might want to retest it.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

And that's what this is as simple as like, I mean, it's calories, right? It allows you to know like how much you can eat to maintain, how much you need to eat to gain, and how much you need to not eat to lose, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:37

It's energy balance. Yep. That's exactly what, and we're pinpointing it to your metabolism. There are estimates, right? You can go online and Google an estimate of your metabolism. Again, just like the home scale, that may or may not be correct for you. And I think a lot of times we get people that come in here and they're like, I'm doing all the right things. What the heck? And I test their metabolism and it's slow. Maybe it's not clinically slow, but maybe it's slower than they thought it was. And, you know, it's just math. And you got to figure out that math. And for some people, it's not that easy, depending on the speed of their metabolism. You could have a higher metabolism because you have a lot of lean mass. You could have a slow metabolism because you've gone through multiple weight loss cycles. There's many things that can change it, and it is a massive piece of the puzzle, especially when it comes to nutrition.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Well, because if you don't know it, you're guessing.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

I mean, if you don't know the number, yeah, and ultimately you put too many calories in, you're not going to make the progress that you want.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

Yeah. And it's not hard to put too many calories in.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

No, it's not. Actually, let me tell you this story. I remember the shows, how little I knew at the time, but this was a few years ago. I think it was like 2019, 2020. I'd gotten into CrossFit, really loved it. And they did a nutrition challenge. But before that nutrition challenge, I was like, well, I eat healthy. And I remember they had to share like some of the stuff we would eat. And I was like, Yeah, I'll eat like an entire bag of like peanuts at my desk or something like that, or or these almonds or whatever, like super healthy, right? And then they were like, Well, why don't you look at like the nutrition label on that thing and see how many calories you're putting down? And my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah, and it's not that they're not healthy.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

No, they are healthy, but it's like it's moderate range.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

More than that.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

More than that. I mean, peanuts, peanut, I mean, all that stuff, right? Like you think it's how even avocado, it's good for you, but it's high in fat. And so you can't have too much.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

Yeah. Right. Yeah, you just gotta be measured. And, you know, in relation to RMR, there's two things that I hear a lot that I can't stand when I hear it. And one is that no woman or nobody should ever be eating 1200 calories. 1200 calories is too low. Well, it might not be. If you're a super small person and 1200 calories is your RMR, it might not be too low. You know, the same thing I hear the opposite end is oh, you should be eating more. You should be eating 2,000, you should be eating 2,500. This is usually fitness people giving that advice because they can eat that, right? They're super, super active. They're working out multiple times a day, they're on their feet, they're teaching class. Yeah, you get to eat 2,500 calories, but your average client coming in, don't tell them that. They're working out an hour at best with you. And they don't mean any harm by that. You know, they just want to make sure that people are eating and eating properly, but those two extremes, I'm like, ah, like it's such a arbitrary number. You don't know your number. You're you're just guessing. So getting that one done is, I think, a lot more important than we put the importance on it. Because again, yeah, you're you're just guessing. You just don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

The RMR helps tremendously. As you were talking, I was calculating my breakfast, which was the Kodiak Power Cakes, the pancake mix. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is 220 calories for one serving. That's just for the mix, right? When I added in the egg, the butter, the syrup, and the milk, guessing my finally calorie total for one serving of what would be 220 calories normally. And you added what? Egg, butter, and milk? Milk and syrup.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

And 600 plus.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

It was 595. Yeah. Yeah, literally. So, but if you think about it, oh, I had 220 calories. Because you're like, oh, it's just a little bit of milk. Well, it was 120 milliliters. That's half a cup. It was if I did my butter right, which I know you did, I had at least 200 calories and butter, if not 300 calories and butter, between because I weighed the butter that I put into the pan too in grams, and then the butter put on the pancake, one serving of syrup, and then the egg was another 70 calories, right? So it easily came up to 600 calories if I did my butter. It might be 700 if I didn't include the last serving of butter. When I think I'm having this great breakfast, healthy. Yeah, right. With a decent amount, well, not even an okay amount of protein. Turns out I had six, seven hundred calories. So now if my metabolism was 1800, I just had around up to say 800, I had almost 50% of my calories in my first meal of the day.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

The entire day. But but it correct me if I'm wrong, carrot cake has no calories. Carrot cake is the true exception.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Birthday calories don't exist.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Well, as our daughters learned, uh Chris was telling them the other day when I went out. We have a dessert stomach and a and a yeah, that's a fact. Yeah, yeah, and our main stomach. That's true. I believe that as well at my house.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Oh my gosh. So yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Yeah, that's where RMR matters greatly. Yeah. And this is where people say, I don't want to track. I say, then then I can't help you. I can't help you. You don't want to track because the blunt reality is as a person who's been doing this and tracking calories forever, I myself had not done these calories on the this particular breakfast I've been eating for a while. And I'm like, shit, this is actually six to seven hundred calories. And I thought it was maybe half that. And I even went light on butter today.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

And you know, we know that tracking can be annoying, but I always tell people, if I don't know, I can't help you. And if you don't know, you can't help you. Like you know, nobody wants to track forever. For the most part, what we eat in a day is pretty similar.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Well, it's similar, but I still weigh when I make our meal snakes say I weigh the rice or potatoes that we're having, I weigh the chicken or whatever meat or protein source, even the tofu, whatever, and I'll weigh the little avocado serving. It's all measured out. So she can enter into her my fitness pile. I can't, and we know exactly how much we're having.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

And then I get the compound calories from my kids. You know, I walk by and oh, there's an extra chicken nugget and whatever. So you really just we get so many people that you know they don't want to track or they have this aversion, but it's like you gotta at least try.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Most diary logs that people will self-report are probably 40% under reporting.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, I could see that. What I found most helpful is, and even though it's kind of boring, is you'd have to be repetitive. Yeah, you have to hip right. Like I have the tracker app, and like I mean, I have certain meals that I just I have, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:26

As repetitive as possible is actually the best thing you can do because your body's kind of a machine, and if it knows what it's gonna get and when it's gonna get it, it actually responds better. So yeah, RMR, that's the second piece that we do. We need the DEXA RMR for nutrition because we use the combination of the two. One of the biggest things we do is we calculate out your protein target from your lean mass. So we make sure that you're feeding your lean mass, and then your caloric target is from your RMR, and then just based on your goals, right? We enter all that in.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Which is critical, right? I mean, that comes back to your breakfast, right? I mean, you just had 595 calories. Who knows how many grams? Well, how many grams of protein was in that?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Oh, it's not that many, I can tell you. Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I mean, and so, like, for example, like my protein goal is I think I'm it's 25, it was only 25 calories.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

So only a hundred of the 600 came from protein. That's pretty one sixth of my calories.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

And then when you realize and start to appreciate, like, wow, protein is wildly important, you want to make sure your calories are well spent. It's funny, when I was at VMI, we would get demerits, and if you got over a certain amount, you had to like do penalty tours, which you had to walk march for an hour and all that. And so I would view my demerits as points. Yeah, like I could spend, I could be late this many times. Yeah, but as long as I'm not late that next time, I'm good. Like I've got points to spend. And it's the same thing with calories, right? Like, yeah, I may get to have that carrot cake, but keep in mind I'm sacrificing then this meal, maybe hitting my protein amount account for that day. And there are possible.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

You do write 80% of the time. We went out for our daughter's ninth birthday and and her mom's 70th birthday. Seventh birthday. She's not gonna watch this. Last night, and I stopped eating after a certain hour because I knew we were gonna go and I was gonna have a very, very I was be eating out, and my meal is gonna be at least a thousand calories. And guess what? My meal was over a thousand calories, and we didn't get dessert.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

No, only because it was before dessert.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

It was late.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Yeah, so that was between Yeah, that was before dessert and no alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah, so probably about 1,500 calories for dinner. And I I tried to plan for that later and just avoided snacking for about four hours before that.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

I want to talk about why all this matters to the trial order. Like why is it important? Before we get there, yeah, can we talk about the VO2 max?

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Yeah, sorry, I'll run through that.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

I did that and I remember that was freaking hard.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Let's redo it. Let's redo it.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

No, thank you. It's been a while. It has been a while.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

So the VO2 max assessment stands for volume of oxygen at max capacity, right? We're looking at how much oxygen are you taking in and utilizing. And this is one of the biggest longevity markers, right? Just how healthy are your heart and lungs working together. And then we also look at what we call your aerobic and your anaerobic zone. So how well and when your body burns fat versus when you switch over into carbohydrates and why you should care and how you can use all this information in your training. So we get a lot of information from the VO2 Max. One of the things that I spent a lot of time doing is coming up with protocols to make sure that everybody could do it. So you don't have to run, you know, we have a walking protocol, we have a running protocol, we have a combination protocol, which is what most people do. Most people, if they're not runners, they will start walking and then end up running. That's the pretty popular one. We also have a bike. And on Friday, I'm getting ready to do a row machine. I've got a woman bringing in a rower so that I can test protocols for doing VO2 Max on a rower. So we really try to mimic whatever it is you're already doing or whatever it is you plan to do, we try to mimic that to give you the best data that's going to correlate outside of here. The test is not easy. It's a VO2 Max test, but I would say two-thirds of the test was pretty easy, right? We ramp you up pretty slow. And then once you cross that anaerobic threshold, once you're breathing heavy and we're getting ready to go for max, usually for most people, I would say the last minute to two or three minutes is difficult. It just depends on how long you can hang on after your threshold. And it's designed to be tough quick to get you to that kind of burnout. I would say most people that have done the test get off and they're like, oh, that wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was gonna be. They're able to do it. I think I've only ever had one person one time in the five years that I've been doing this that wasn't able to do it. So most people can do it. I think most people, even if their VO2 max is low and we need to increase it, they're impressed by the capacity. Like they didn't know they could work that hard. And I'm like, hey, guess what? You can. And here's your prescription based on that. We talk about the zone two training, the zone three training, the high intensity training. We get into all of that. So not only for cardiopulmonary health, it can aid in weight loss. We get a lot of weight loss people. Obviously, cardiovascular work can aid in that. We don't lean on cardio for weight loss. Our cardio prescriptions are purely based on cardiopulmonary health. How can you increase or maintain your VO2 max? How can you increase or maintain your body's ability to burn fat? And again, anybody can do it. I know it's hard, but everybody has gotten through it. Most people get off and they're like, oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Well, you Melissa created a protocol so that everyone can do it. And that's the problem with depending on where you do a test like this, you may find the protocol is not suitable for your ability. Yeah, if they force you to run and you're not a runner, you're gonna top out. And your tests were very altered, very skewed data. We've seen we've had to correct data, we've had to rerun tests for people that they were done wrong. They administered wrong, the explanations were wrong, they were very poorly run, and it really stinks because this person was under this idea for six months or years even, where they had incorrect data, and it was we know people that have gotten injured from or injured very poorly administered tests by people that didn't understand it. It's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

And this is, I mean, uh it's not all visible on the camera, but like the traditional VO2 is the treadmill, the mask, the heart rate monitor, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:58

I mean and it's this is traditional, but we've modified the protocol. That's the difference. Is we've I had an eight, yeah, I had an 84-year-old do it.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Guys almost 500 pounds do it.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Yeah, we've had everybody do it. Uh so you anybody can do it, is the point. I do think there's this kind of stigma. People are like, I'm not an athlete, I'm not gonna do that. And it's like, no, this is still health. Like David said, this should be physical. This is practical. Your VO2 max mortality.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Right, right. It's because our, I mean, uh not to criticize the healthcare system, but I'm about to, we don't live in a healthcare system. We live in a sick system, right? Or whatever you want to call it. Sick care as well. Right?

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Like, or sick care, right? It's it's reactive, not preventative, right? So if we know, if you think about the healthier your heart and lung function is, the longer you're gonna live. It's not rocket science. It's not hard to figure out. Makes sense, right? The more muscle mass you have, the more protective it is, the better, the longer you live. The denser and harder your bones are, good bone density, good muscle mass, healthy levels of body fat, good cardiopulmonary fitness, good metabolism. Yeah, I mean, this stuff translates more to your daily life. That's practical care. Now we came up with last week calling practical care. Right? This is how primary care should be is we should be a part of if there's a primary care physician you're seeing, we should be a part of that annual physical, is how we really think about it.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

We've made it so that everybody can do it. And if somebody doesn't do it and they're like, Well, how hard should I work? I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, it's just another piece of the puzzle. Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

You don't have that baseline.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

So you can't do it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

And if you look at CDC recommendations, the baseline, most Americans are coming very short of each other. Yeah, they're not even hitting baseline. Baseline standards for cardiovascular exercise and for resistance training. Most people are not getting anywhere near the baseline recommendations of 150 minutes a week for moderate intensity or 75 minutes a week for vigorous intensity, plus two plus days of resistance training, plus mobility or flexibility training. It's so much. Not including sleep, stress, and dietary needs. People are not even hitting the bare minimum and expecting the Instagram body also or where are all my results when they're still not even doing the bare minimum recommendations of CDC.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

But those are the the core three. Yeah. The DEX RMR VO2. That's the the big three that we do. That gives us the most comprehensive look at your starting point and where we want you to go.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

And why is let's talk about this. Why is all this important for lawyers? Well, I mean, it's and I recognize the answer is probably something that's applicable to everybody, but why in particular lawyers?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

So in DC, our clientele was very much A lot of lawyers. It's who sees us here now. Yeah. Oddly enough, when we were doing personal training back in DC and other forms of health coaching and corporate wellness and managing gyms and things like that. All the jobs we did. All the jobs we did. We worked with generally, you would find managing partners at law firms, very successful business owners. And what we saw over the years was this sort of breaking down of them physically, where they achieved great financial success, mentally emotionally, they were pretty happy people, but physically in the process of achieving what they did, becoming that managing partner at Reed Smith or Morgan Lewis or wherever they were, or starting that business that is now internationally known, what happened to their physical health and the process, it really suffered. So when you look at them, particularly the attorneys, and I remember having a conversation one time and I said, you know, he had to meet me at 6 a.m. to train. We meet almost every day at 6 a.m. If it happened at 6 p.m., it could be a dinner. He also did a lot of flight to London randomly TV at TV appearances, and like, oh, I gotta go and CNN tonight, I I can't meet you. So when you look at people in high stress, high demand, and now they're middle age and up, so they're in their highest earning part of their career with the most responsibility. They also almost always had kids, aging parents, maybe animals. They had people depending on them at home, at work. So when you look at it from that perspective, their stress was monumental, lack of sleep is monumental. So there are no billable hours for your health, right? When you bill on 15-minute increments, who's going to pay for your health when it comes time? And what you see is the biggest argument I would say, and like you said, it applies to everybody, but particularly with attorneys, because this is who we've worked with so much: the better you are, the healthier you are, the sharper you'll be in court, the sharper you'll be writing those briefs, the sharper you'll be, and better you'll be, not just for yourself and your work, but for your family, your friends, your loved ones. So it has this ripple effect across the board. Your tolerance and temper in traffic when someone cuts you off, right? It all matters with your own personal health. And if you're not putting yourself first, because if you're always putting the firm first, you're always putting billable hours first, always putting somebody else first. You see with parents too, they put the kids first before their own needs. Something will either break eventually for you, health-wise, and have a major cardiac incident or something will occur. So you have to put yourself first to be better for everyone else, is the best way I could say. You have to be selfish and set aside time to exercise and understand I'm not taking that networking meeting, that new client meeting. I need to make sure from 6 a.m. to 7 a.m., that's my time. I'm not missing it. Or 6 p.m. to 7 p.m., I'm not missing it. Whatever that window is or lunchtime.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

So I think the the culture that we've seen for attorneys too is very difficult, right? You have these crazy long hours, and then you might have a client dinner or a happy hour or something. Just the so the kind of the lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

You have a multi-million dollar client that oh, he must have been at 6 30 tonight for end of two hours.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

And now we're all having a round of drinks or whatever, right? I feel like the the culture surrounding attorneys it just seems to be detrimental to their health. And they again, we kind of picked up on it because they were figuring it out in their 50s, and that's when they were coming to see us. That's when things were really that's when they were starting to break down because of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Have you ever seen like the social media meme or whatever it is, or it's like the heart attack at 60 started at 30. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Like I mean, I know there's truth to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, none of that didn't happen. You didn't just have a heart attack. That's been building up for 20 to 30 years, right? Uh most of these diseases. Yeah. And yeah, and I I think with attorneys, like David said, it's there's just so much on you guys, just with the culture. That's just the way it is. Because we've had conversations with judges.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Virginia Judges and Lawyers Assistance Program.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Yeah, I did a we did a conference with them and we've had conversations around the culture and how it's how many attorneys were impaired?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Do you remember the number? Oh my god. One in five? One in three.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

One in three.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

So one of everyone is impaired. And attorneys. So BJLAP, which I think you met with them recently. Yeah, I did. And they do some really monumentally important work around for mental health. Mental health and with substance abuse. Completely anonymous, not just for legal professionals, but also for their family members, too, I believe. So they do really great work. And one in three attorneys being impaired.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

I was shocked by that when they said that.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Or yeah. And you know, in your case, you have this week where you were advocating on someone's behalf. Imagine if you're intoxicated when you're going to be able to do that. No, we wouldn't have gotten the result we got.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Right, right. Like if our teaching wasn't so much arrested and ready to go. I think with the culture and just so much pressure on attorneys, it's we've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah. And that's where you see I I don't know the rates of suicide, but uh when you look at substance abuse alone and you see those higher rates with certain populations.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

So just like you we've said, for everybody, just making you a better lawyer, making everybody, you know, better husband, better wife, better everything, it just taking care of yourself. And I think that's lost on many professions. But attorney's definitely up there as far as it does it's a good thing. And it's hard when it's billable hours, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Because you can't bill 40 hours in 40 hours. It's just not possible. You had to use the toilet at one point, you had to eat something at one point. 40 billable hours are not gonna happen within 40. What's it gonna take you? 60 to get there, right? Right? If you're lucky, and that's a lot of pressure because 40 already is eight hours a day out of the home.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yeah, I mean, so we don't bill hours at our firm and our practice area for the most part, and and if we did, I probably wouldn't do it because I billable hours are evil. Well, I was gonna say this they're evil, I mean, they're just because they don't need to change. This is where it needs to change. It has to, they're not, they're also just not good in general. I mean, I think it's a people will argue it's a necessary evil in the sense of like, well, how else do you measure your time, the value that's being put into something? But think about it, it does not incentivize efficiency.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

I mean, and actually, I'm wondering how all AI is gonna play into this because AI can make something that may have taken a day done in 30 minutes, if not if not minutes, right? That's not good for the billable hour, right? It doesn't incentivize camaraderie. Or I take the back, it disincentivizes it because why am I going to then spend 45 minutes going to lunch with my colleague down the hall when I know that if I do that, I can't bill for that. So now I'm gonna have to stay late 45 minutes, right? Like it's just not good. And a lot of lawyers live and die by the billable hour, and it's worse than just 15-minute increments. It's six-minute increments.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

The vast majority of lawyers bill at six-minute increments. And so it's not good. I did it for a little bit and I did not enjoy it at all. And I think there's a lot of issues with it. But you're right, like it's it can be all consuming and it can be very hard for the attorney with the pressure who's supporting a family, who's trying to advance in their career, and the culture is such where you need to get your hours in. And but there's no set-aside time for your health.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

And by the time they figure it out, it's never too late, but now it's harder, right? Because we've gotten in these patterns, maybe some diseases set in. So yeah, never too late to start, but it it's going to be harder now that you're in your 50s than it would have been if you would have started in your 30s.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

So let's take, let's just say the the lawyer who has never worked out or never in a serious way, never really done much with nutrition, and they come to you and say, Hey, I'm a mess. What do I do? Like, what's the starting point?

SPEAKER_04 42:10

I mean, for most people, the starting point is just gonna be the testing, right? What we would call the full panel, which is all three. But as we've already said, I think getting the data, that's not the hard part. It's implementing it. That's where the behavior, that's where the coaching comes into play. That's the hard part, right? The data takes me 90 minutes to get for you. Now it's let's look at this and let's create a plan, which is much more him. But I I think the more important part is applying it.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

If you're starting from nowhere, what you see is a potential kind of overhaul of someone's life. So it'd be kind of be a pretty big deal. And if someone made the step to come in here, when you look at and behavior change and where people are mentally, it goes from pre-contemplation, I'm not thinking about this whatsoever. No desire, I don't care, don't want to think about my health or my finances or whatever that thing is. Contemplation is I should probably start to think about what's happening here. I should probably start to do something, probably get active, eating better. You know, I'm getting older now, and whatever it may be. Preparation. I come into Metafit and I get my baseline testing done, and now I'm ready, I'm ready to do it. And now I I put a plan into action and I connect with us, and then we refer you out to a personal trainer, maybe a mental health therapist, maybe a dietitian, maybe a PCP. It really depends on what you need, but it's gonna really depend on where the person is. So meeting them, this is cliche, but meeting somebody where they are is really relevant because we all don't have the same 24 hours of the day. And a 22-year-old who's single with no kids, or say a 25-year-old single with no kids, fresh out of law school, a young up-and-coming star out of U of R, right? They're gonna pour themselves into the business and have the time. Because one question I always ask people, who else are you caring for? And one answer is just myself, it's a lot easier than when you have a spouse, a partner, kids, a dog, a mother, a father, a sister, someone that needs your financial responsible or have to be present for all the time. So getting started is really the biggest part. You you talk about in the fitness world, the heaviest weight in the gym is the door. Because I've never heard that. Right? The hardest thing about getting there is going there and then getting then opening that door and getting in. But once you're in, you're you're in, you made it. Right. So that's really the biggest barrier is getting people to do it and figuring out in health behavior, you look at what is called a cue to act, a cue to action. What is it that Sharif Gray is motivated by? Is it his family? Is it his maybe it is your work, right? We're very motivated by work. We're very passionate about it. I it's I don't ever turn off, right? To a fault. I don't really think of it as work. But at the same time, I'm gonna fall victim to all the things I talk about if I don't turn off. And she yells at me, stop texting about work. Oh, it's after five o'clock. But it's we own the business, right? So I'm just as guilty as the billable hour attorney. Yeah, I don't absolve myself from that, but I I understand it in that way and why they do it. So maybe that's why you know crazy means crazy, and you kind of understand it better. So getting baseline data and just starting somewhere. Yeah, you don't have to be ready, you're never gonna be ready. Someone messaged us about, hey, I'm on a weight loss journey, I'm almost there. When should I come in? And I said, now. I said, Don't wait until you hit your goal. Because what if you hit your goal and you're not where you want to be with visceral fat, body fat, muscle mass? I said, the best time to come in is today. Yeah because it is. We need to know. Know sooner than later, particularly if someone's starting GLP1s or doing any hormone treatment, we need to know immediately what their body composition is today, not six months into usage. Because then now we don't have good baseline data. We don't have a true starting point to see what really happens.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

And it can be a lot of information, right? You mentioned, especially if someone's coming in here and they've never done anything before, and now all of a sudden I'm handing them all this stuff. It can be very overwhelming. So pick one thing. So right.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

I'm gonna start going forward.

SPEAKER_04 45:58

Well, what I hand you, this is perfection on paper. You know, it's you're not gonna tomorrow start doing it's like a New Year's Eve resolution. You're not gonna just tomorrow change and start doing all of this. So it's taking everything that we give you and applying it in stages that are gonna be consistent and not overwhelming. And we're not trying to add one more thing to make you more stressed out. I think starting from scratch is very important to have that health coaching behavior because I, yeah, I hand you the stuff and you know, I don't hold back. Here's exactly what you need to do. But it can be a lot, especially if somebody's not even doing baseline, you know, and then they're looking at this thinking they're even more of a failure because now they can't do this, and that's not our intention. So definitely having that behavior piece or that health coaching piece is huge.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Well, the accountability aspect's important. Because it's easy to be like, well, you know what? I'm just gonna do what everyone else is doing, right? That happy hour sounds good to me.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

And sometimes it's hard to break free of that community and that culture and be the only one that's not doing that, right? And you learning to put yourself first is very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

It's weird. Alcohol is something I've struggled with. I mean, I take I've never been an alcoholic, I've never had trouble drinking too much. But what I've continued to struggle with, even though I don't really care for alcohol, I don't want to drink alcohol. I go to a social event and it's like, hey, why aren't you drinking? Right. Or or maybe no one asked me that, but it it's like I almost I feel it. Yeah, right. And it's like uh one of my friends said not long ago, it's like it's the one drug that people ask if there's a problem if you're not taking it, yeah, which is crazy, right?

SPEAKER_04 47:33

It's again it's that culture, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

There's three things we recommend you never do. One is smoking, two is drinking, and then minimize sitting, would be the three things. Minimize sitting, sitting, okay, yeah. The three biggest things you could do to impact your health now would be don't smoke, eliminate or minimize drinking, and keep sitting. You're gonna have to sit, obviously, sometimes, but get a standing desk, get a walking desk. We're all hypocrites right now. We're gonna sit in front of it.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Well, it's it's almost sad too that if you're the one trying to care about your health and trying to make those changes, and other people are either threatened by that or you know, the immediate reaction is, oh, you're better than me. And it's like, why won't you have a drink with me? And we really need to change that culture as well. If somebody's trying to make themselves better for whatever reason, you know, we need to be more supportive, but it's it's not that way. It is not that way with us in the fitness community sometimes. You know, we don't drink and we don't do certain things, and it's almost a pain to have to deal with it. And hopefully, you know, if you have somebody in your life that's trying to change, be there for them. It's hard enough without everybody else adding others greatly. That pressure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

So that's where having a good community, like you found with CrossFit, right? So you see it a lot that CrossFit has a really good community base. Burn Boot Camp has a really good community base fit for moms is a phenomenal resource for moms looking to be around people who've been in been through the same thing very recently. They can bring their baby to class, right? So different fitness communities for different modalities are all available. Whether you're a brand new beginner or super advanced, you can find them. So finding a positive supportive community and the environment ultimately matters greatly. Whereas if Melissa and I are not aligned on goals in the home and I'm bringing home ice cream every day. Yeah, I'm trying to eat better.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

And he's like, here's your hag and does.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Yeah, here's some hag and yeah, here's the loft. Eventually I'm gonna crack, right?

SPEAKER_04 49:25

It doesn't matter how good your willpower is if you're in front of it every day.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

If your partner or your home environment, your spouse is not supportive and actually sabotaging. And we see that a lot, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

I don't think we necessarily see sabotaging a lot. I just don't think they know they are.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

I don't think they're doing I hope they're not doing it on purpose, but we've seen people where their partner purposely besides.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

But I think most I don't think most people are, but if you're not helping, you're almost are.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

You know, yeah, whenever when they're like, hey, I'm tracking everything, and they bring home a carrot cake. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

Yeah, just and you can sense the struggle in my house. You don't have to be perfect, but you know, there's only so many times that you can walk by your favorite food before you're gonna eat it.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Yeah. This has been a lot of fun. I've got one more question. Is that all right? Yeah. If you all could tell one thing as to why lawyers should take their health seriously, and not like tomorrow, not six months from now, but today, what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 50:20

I mean, sometimes in these cases, people's lives depend on the outcomes. Whether it's their physical life and possible incarceration, it could be their financial ruin, it could be there's so many different components that could have a legal basis for. And they need an attorney that is as mentally, physically, emotionally stable as possible is what I would say. It's not I'm not talking about six-pack abs, I'm talking about eight-pack abs. I'm joking. No, it's about somebody who is well-rounded, right? And they are holistic in their approach of their own self-care. Because again, my argument is always the better you are, the better you'll be for the people you serve.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

I think attorneys, as we've already talked about, you guys are already in such a high-risk environment for your health. And I think recognizing that, and then hopefully, you know, taking steps as early as you can to try to mitigate that. Because at some point, you know, like we already talked about, that heart attack's building. The stress is going to get to you. The burnout is real. And I think the the quicker you can acknowledge it and like David said, realize that you need to be better for yourself to be better for everything else. You know, my hope would just be that they realize it sooner rather than later so that you can continue in your career and be as good as you are now when you're 50. And, you know, however, whenever you decide to retire, and so that those final years are not you broken from your career so that you can enjoy life into your 60s, 70s, 80s, whatever. Like what around like 40s and 50s is when it just starts coming crashing down.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Yeah, 40s and 50s where you start to see the if you haven't done anything, that's where it starts to nosed. And then medications begin for all these chronic diseases. And you can stay alive in the 90s and be medicated. And that's some people that's the path they end up on. But you do have a choice, and it really starts oddly enough. If you probably go back to law school with kids in their 20s, it's gonna actually start with them because the habits they build. So this is kind of a retolling of the whole system where it's the food system, the environment. But it'd be go back to not just the old school firms, but going back to law school and teaching these people hey, diet and exercise and stress and sleep management are all an important part of should be an important part of your practice. Anybody that builds a practice or joins a practice, make sure there's an emphasis on your personal well-being.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Do they have anything like that in school?

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Manage managing stress or anything is.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

Because again, as we talked about, it's gotta start with the culture.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

The problem though is the culture, the work cultures in many places doesn't support that. Right. Even if on their face they say they do. Right. And that's got to start from the top up.

SPEAKER_04 53:13

And if you've got, you know, older generation running the firm. Well, that's what it is, right? Right. And they're not at our firm. Because when I was an intern or when I was starting out, this is how it was. So that's how it's gonna be for you.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

And you know, so for the meeting leaders that are saying, All right, everybody, it's 12 o'clock, stop what you're doing. Instead of having this meeting in the boardroom, we're all going for a walk around the complex or the building, whatever it might be. Sure. You have to make it a part of the culture. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

And if ultimately your culture doesn't care, then you you've got to. You've got to find a way to care for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

Yeah. But and also it starts with the kids. So the kids that have those c those behaviors ingrained in the time that they're six years old will be much more likely to keep them when they're 60. And if the law school students have an emphasis on health and well-being, those behaviors will carry over into the firms they then join and help to shape for the future.

SPEAKER_04 54:02

Yeah, that's prevention, right? The younger you can start, the better.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

This has been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Well, thank you guys. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

Yeah, thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Thanks for listening to Courtroom Stories and Tactics by RVA trial lawyers, hosted by Sharif Gray and Nial Abuzaki. Please subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or any major podcast platform. Together, we're building a tribe of trial lawyers to remind the world what human life is truly worth. One verdict at a time.